Debunking /leftypol/

AwesomeTucker
AwesomeTucker

Thought I would check /leftypol/ to see how fucking shitty it is, saw this thread: /leftypol/res/608247.html#608247

I was intrigued, can you really attribute so many deaths to poverty in the USSR, when Stalin tanked the economy so hard?

All urls found in this thread:
http://www.rferl.org/content/european-remembrance-day-ukraine-little-known-ww2-tragedy/25083847.html
http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2015/R314-150401.php
http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.ca/2012/05/was-stalin-jewish.html
idontknow
idontknow

Nobody? I'd really love to get Leeky Forums's take on this. I want the truth, nothing else.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Yeah I'm really going to believe soviet records, not like they've ever lied or fudged their figures…

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

What's the point of debunking a containment board full of delusion and schizophrenics that are immune to facts and reason?

farquit
farquit

@BlogWobbles
This.

Sharpcharm
Sharpcharm

@BlogWobbles
Good point, this is the kind of thing I was looking for. I honestly didn't think of this, feeling pretty retarded right now.

@Boy_vs_Girl
Good question, but why not?
Funnily enough, I saw a thread a bit ago talking about how feminism is a tool of capitalism. Top kek

@farquit
I'm genuinely confused by what the tripfag wrote.

Flameblow
Flameblow

Nobody debates the fact that Stalin's Russia made great progress in industrial production capacity. However, that is basically their only saving grace. They made a lot of steel.

It never translated into benefits for the plebs, hence the entire point of the Kitchen Debates ("Our shit sucked until now but soon we will have refrigerators!" -Kruschev). Stalin's atrocities are documented beyond any reasonable fucking doubt and admitted by the Kruschev-era party as well as later thinkers like Mr. Gorbie and his "new thought" reformers.

Stalin killed millions of people. In Ukraine it was intentional. "Hurr durr they're kulaks and bandits, kill all of them." In Siberia it was intentional. "Gulag? More like free labor pool you no need give food!"

At least unlike Mao, Stalin's 5 year plans worked (for a while). Had they revived the New Economic Plan and gone capitalist circa 1960 they'd probably have caught up with the west. They stayed commie and shit sucked. In the 1970s Russia was basically the only fucking industrialized state to ever experience a prolonged decrease in life expectancy.

tl;dr stalin was a faggot, and even /leftypol/ hate "tankie" stalinist apologists

SniperWish
SniperWish

@Sharpcharm
Something about soviet evidence for the holocaust being edited,just like they edited stalin's son out of many photos.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@BlogWobbles

Nope, sorry, these records where never meant to be made public.
Beside Stalin period was followed by Krushnev period and Gorbatchev periods.

Poker_Star
Poker_Star

@AwesomeTucker

Actually, they are right.

The whole Stalin killed 20/50/60 millions is utter BS, it couldn´t have done by the Soviet-Union of the 1920s and 1930s.

60 millions figure is almost 400 times the Hiroshima toll.

Massive technical and logistic problems.

Flameblow
Flameblow

The Soviets were massive deceivers. Even the current Russian state is not exactly trustworthy but the Soviets did everything in their power to get their way which included everything bad under the sun, especially pinning their atrocities on others. I'll give another example of that in the following posts.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

In addition to the astronomical fraudulence of the holocaust™ story, the Nazis have also been scapegoated for the bloodcurdling atrocities that the Soviet communists committed against their own people and the people of Eastern Europe during WWII. Of course, during WWII the Germans — surrounded by bloodthirsty enemies incited by the Talmudic hate of the Jewish commissars in the Kremlin and the Jewish propagandists in Hollywood — were fighting a war of racial survival. They killed their foes just as any soldier is trained to do in a war, and who could fault them for doing so? It was a chaotic bloodbath of obscene proportions. Millions upon millions of people were killed, on all sides. However, the Western media has, since the end of WWII, parroted the claim that 20,000,000 Russians were killed by the Axis Forces during the war. This turns out to be yet another mountainous sham.

In a groundbreaking book entitled “Stalin’s Secret War,” Russian historian Nikolai Tolstoy demonstrates that a majority of the Soviet citizens killed during the war were not the victims of Nazi forces but were, in fact, the victims of Stalin and his NKVD henchmen in his merciless campaign of ferocious violence and mass murder against his own population to keep them subdued and subservient to communist rule. Charles Lutton’s review of Stalin’s Secret War describes this dark reality as such:

“The “secret war” Tolstoy goes on to vividly describe was the fierce campaign Stalin waged against the Russian population – a struggle which often took priority over pressing military problems. For example, Stalin tied up much of the rail network in western Russia with slave trains of captives from the Baltic states, instead of devoting all rolling stock to the reinforcement of the frontlines. At L’Vov, where the Soviet 4th Army was fighting desperately to prevent its surrender, Stalin’s major concern was that the NKVD finish liquidating potential Ukrainian opponents of the regime rather than order the local security forces to join in the battle against advancing Axis units. While Stalin pleaded with the British to rush more aid and take further action, the NKVD labor camp guards were doubled in number from 500,000 to one million heavily armed men.

Standard treatments of this period always claim that the Soviet Union lost over 20 million people during the Second World War. Tolstoy makes a convincing case that the actual total is probably closer to 30 million, maybe even more — with about a third of these deaths attributable to Axis actions. The blame for as many as 23 million deaths is placed with Stalin and his NKVD henchmen.

Casualty figures for the Eastern Front have been estimated as follows: two and a half million German soldiers died in the East. It is believed that three Red Army men died for every German soldier killed. Of those 7,500,000 military deaths, approximately three million Russians died as POWs.

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

@BlogWobbles
Tolstoy’s analysis of these statistics does much to revise our understanding of the war on the Eastern Front, as he demonstrates that these high Russian military casualties were largely due to the Soviets’ crude methods of waging war. “Penal battalions” composed of “enemies of the people” (i.e., inmates of prisons and camps, and luckless peasants, including women and children) were hurled in waves against German defensive positions. Frequently unarmed and at times deprived of camouflaged uniforms to better draw enemy fire, they were often used to clear minefields. With NKVD machine-gunners poised behind them, they were forced across minefields until a path was cleared. The wounded were killed off by the NKVD. General Ratov, chief of the Soviet Military Mission to Britain, actually declined an offer of British mine-detectors, remarking that “in the Soviet Union we use people.” SMERSH (from the initials “Death to Spies”), the NKVD’s special murder arm made famous by Ian Fleming in his James Bond thrillers, was created in 1942 as an additional guard on Soviet front-line troops. The NKVD placed large heavily-armed formations at the rear of Soviet units to discourage withdrawals and to pick off “stragglers” and “cowards.” In a number of instances, NKVD units fought pitched battles with Red Army detachments trying to retreat in the face of superior enemy forces. Stalin continued to purge his armed forces even as the Axis advanced. It is likely that hundreds of thousands of Russians were killed in such actions.

As for the POWs who died in German captivity, Tolstoy reminds the reader that the Soviet government refused to sign the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War, refused to cooperate with the International Red Cross (the Nazis allowed the Red Cross to visit concentration camps), and rebuffed German feelers forwarded through neutralist concerning compliance with the Hague Convention. A 1941 directive ordered Red Army men to commit suicide instead of surrender and Soviet law regarded Russian POWs as traitors. Besides their own “penal battalions,” the Russians occasionally used POWs to clear minefields.

German attitudes toward the Russians were further colored by evidence of NKVD massacres encountered at such places as L’Vov, Vinnitsa, and Katyn. They found not just piles of corpses, but apparently mass-produced torture instruments, including devices for squeezing the skull, another for the testicles, and tools used to skin prisoners alive. Ice picks, broken bottles, or whatever else was handy or preferred were also used. Tolstoy observes that “Soviet cruelty far outstripped that of National Socialism. . . . Torture in the USSR was (and is) employed on a mass scale as an important punitive means of overawing a resentful population.” He goes on to explain that these ghastly scenes of state-sanctioned depravity “confirmed the German view that Bolshevik Russia was irredeemably savage and backward.” Considering how civilians and POWs were treated by the Communists, the Germans felt no obligation to show much consideration for Russian POWs. According to the author, there was a purpose behind all of this cruelty:

“Stalin went out of his way to invite Nazi ill-treatment and later extermination of Russian prisoners-of-war. . . . It is quite clear, therefore, that the deaths of over three million Russians in German custody was a piece of deliberate Soviet policy, the aim of which was to cause the liquidation of men regarded automatically as political traitors, whilst directing the anger of the Soviet people against the perpetrators of the crime. . . . It should not be forgotten, either, that Soviet cruelty greatly prolonged the conflict, costing all belligerent nations millions of lives. . . . This evidence of how the Soviets treated their own people, coupled with the harsh treatment they visited on prisoners-of-war, was the major cause of Germany’s obstinate determination to fight on to the end, long after it had become clear her cause was doomed.”

Having accounted for the 7½ million military casualties, Tolstoy states that four million Russian civilians were killed by the Germans (although this includes those involved in anti-Partisan operations, military sieges of such cities as Leningrad, and 750,000 Jews). This leaves 18-20 million additional Russians killed in the course of Stalin’s “secret war” against his own subjects.” (Lutton, Charles. Book Review — Stalin’s War: Victims and Accomplices, Journal of Historial Review)

whereismyname
whereismyname

Examples of doctoring photos.

TalkBomber
TalkBomber

@Flameblow

Nope, the whole Stalin killed millions is nothing but propagandistic bullshit.

It is simple, if that propagandistic bullshit was true, Soviet-Union would have collapsed in 1941 and been divided between German and Japanese spheres of influences, Hitler would have won the war.

"In the 1970s Russia was basically the only fucking industrialized state to ever experience a prolonged decrease in life expectancy. "

Exactly what was the living expectancy before, huh? Again, bullshit propaganda.

Of course this is just claim against claim.

The real deciding factor is the problems such a killing, more than the second Sino-Japanese war (that had Nanjing massacre and widspread chemical warfare against the Chinese), more than WW1 (15,436,261
to18,407,800 total).

"Waaaah! Waaaah! Stalin apologists, how dare you question the 60 millions!!?"

So it is not just propaganda, it is stupid propaganda, it just ignores what is technically feasible.

You might as well believe 1941 Japan could have invaded the US all the way to Chicago.

BlogWobbles
BlogWobbles

Important audio. The Red Army was a brutalized army that was motivated by terror. All the "for the motherland!" is propaganda towards the end of WW2.

Lord_Tryzalot
Lord_Tryzalot

Here is a Dam that the Soviets blew up, they drowned about 100,000 Ukrainians

http://www.rferl.org/content/european-remembrance-day-ukraine-little-known-ww2-tragedy/25083847.html

5mileys
5mileys

Thanks anons, keep it coming. This is good shit.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

@AwesomeTucker
If you want to debunk Marxism, you just bring out The Communist Manifesto and Marx's own quotes. Its so obviously nefarious and destrutive that only the most brainwashed retard will think it has any merit.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@MPmaster
I think a noteworthy thing in the 5th photo is the mismatch of uniforms. Firstly, the executioner doesn't seem to be wearing a shirt underneath his tunic. To the far left is a man with to tabs on his collar, next to him is a man wearing the uniform of a member of an army band! Next to him a man wearing no uniform, and in the middle of the photo, the black uniform of a Luftwaffe mechanic! All the uniform seem to be Wehrmacht, and here I was thinking the Einsatzgruppen were SS units …

massdebater
massdebater

Very important.

Karl Radl is the internet pseudonym of an English author, academic researcher and perpetual student who holds various degrees in business and modern history and has published several articles and a book or two. His blog is called Semitic Controversies. Karl joins Lana for a discussion on Semitic controversies, namely Bolshevik and Communist plots, as well as more current geopolitical events. To begin, Karl speaks to the games of identity and supremacy at the heart of Judaism. He describes the emergence of Judaism in Poland during the reign of Russia’s Catherine the Great – a time when localized rabbinical tyrants ruled Jews with an iron fist, and ritual murder by lynching was common practice. We discuss the timeline of events starting with Jewish emancipation up to the founding of the state of Israel, and then Karl explains how the European monarchy system protected and endorsed these financiers of the crown, providing them with disproportionate economic benefits and special privileges. We look at Stalin’s role in the Communist seizure of power in the Soviet Union and the Bolshevik uprising, along with the purge of culturally disloyal elements he initiated post WWII. We weigh up the mass slaughters of millions of Europeans carried out at the hands of Russian Communists, who those players were, the American Communist agenda, and the formation of the US/Israel alliance. We move on to address the new totalitarian regime of Liberalism destroying the west and the grand scheme of censorship.

http://www.redicecreations.com/radio3fourteen/2015/R314-150401.php

Flameblow
Flameblow

@BlogWobbles

Bollocks.

Can´t force that many, litteraly millions, to fight for so long with so much firepower. They could just turn their guns on the comissars.

Even in 2014 and 2015 ukraine the oligarchs had problems with making enough ukies fight and they settled for far less than the 1944 or 1945 Soviet army.
They needed volunteers like the Azov battalion and foreign mercenaries to keep things running.
What next? Daesh "forces" jihadists to illegaly immigrate to Germany?
Even Daesh don´t maintain their rule with terror but with popular support from the local Sunni populations, it is their enemies that faces terror.

So again, nothing but crappy propaganda cuz Muricans and Brits knows they only stabbed Germany in the back when the German army and air force had already been considerably weakened, very convenient to believe.

At least the holocaust stays at 6 millions and doesn´t go from 3 millions to 15 millions joos. No such luck with how many Stalin killed, you not only can´t agree on the numbers, you don´t even bother to think of whever these numbers are possible or not.

Ya just read some BS by Anne Aplebaum or Robert Conquest, you just swallow it hook, line and sinker, no critical thinking involved whatsoever.

That is how it works.

TurtleCat
TurtleCat

da comrade, grain production is up 400% since last harvest!

people actually believing fucking Stalinist era USSR claims to production levels

DeathDog
DeathDog

@Nude_Bikergirl
The uniforms are makeshift or partisan lookalikes, stolen ones, etc. Notice they are always missing helmets in these so-called atrocity photos. They are photo ops.

GoogleCat
GoogleCat

Is there any evidence that any of Stalin's ancestors were jewry? I'm curious.

Nude_Bikergirl
Nude_Bikergirl

@TurtleCat
Reading Animal Farm made me hate communism even more than I already did.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@GoogleCat
http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.ca/2012/05/was-stalin-jewish.html

No Stalin wasn't jewish.

Soft_member
Soft_member

@DeathDog
That second pic is completely ambiguous. Its not possible to say if it is either a German or a Partizan.

After going through Yugoslavia, the Germans actually seized loads of Yugo Mausers and issued them. You can never have too many guns in war. And even then, you cant tell the difference to a reasonable degree of certainty based on that pic.

idontknow
idontknow

@AwesomeTucker
REMEMBER THE HOLODOMOR
MORE THAN 7 MILLION WHITE VICTIMS
FIX SITE HWTWHEELS

Deadlyinx
Deadlyinx

@idontknow
WHITE

Oh mongrel

Evilember
Evilember

Killing people is one of the key methods of communism. They reduced poverty simply by killing poor people. This isn't even a conspiracy.

SniperWish
SniperWish

Does anyone have the infographic explaining Fascism

LuckyDusty
LuckyDusty

this is what Communists actually believe
there are actually people with ideas this retarded

VisualMaster
VisualMaster

@Deadlyinx
slavs aren't white
Ok (1)

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@VisualMaster
Also, pic related says 16.5 million, the Holodomor I was referencing was the 1932-1932 period which claimed about 6-7 million Ukrainian lives in deliberate genocide.

Crazy_Nice
Crazy_Nice

@VisualMaster
There a white races, not a singular white race.

takes2long
takes2long

5476456
Some butthurt leftist was all, "WHY DOES THE RIGHT WING GET THEIR OWN BOARD WHAT ABOUT US LEFTISTS WHO WANT A BOARD TO DISCUSS THINGS ON!?!?"

Not realizing that Leeky Forums is neither right or left wing, but simply politically incorrect. What gains the most traction here is what survives constant argumentation.

The butthurt leftists couldn't stand their stupid ideas getting shit on, so they went to make a new board whereupon they immediately began censoring and banning anyone who didn't espouse their leftist views.

Personally, I don't like it just because it drags leftists into a hugbox and allows Leeky Forums to likewise turn into a rightwing hugbox with the removal of contrarian opinions.

Better to force them together in a constant mess of arguments and fighting so only the best ideas survive.

idontknow
idontknow

@Crazy_Nice
So how are Ukrainians mongrels?

lostmypassword
lostmypassword

@takes2long
Speaking of which, the thread where this question was posed was immediately deleted, which confirmed my long-standing suspicion that Leeky Forums is turning into a rightwing hugbox.

Burnblaze
Burnblaze

@AwesomeTucker
everyone is starving to death and are extremely poor
we destroyed all of the Russian Empire's progress in industrialization
we stopped Russia from being the industrial capital of europe
b-but w-we inc-increased s-steel prod-production!!111

Leftycucks everyone

that second image
look goy, wow, we didn't kill 60 million, we only killed 59 million! See communism does work!

Evilember
Evilember

@idontknow
Only mongrels use "white race" to describe themselves or others, because they have lost their unique roots.
Mongrel

FastChef
FastChef

@TalkBomber
A whole post offering nothing tangible in response.

Citation needed.

Booteefool
Booteefool

@Soft_member
The uniform does not even match with German ones, he is not wearing a German helmet either (or any helmet). They didn't go into combat without helmets. At any rate the picture is not proof of the Wehrmacht killing a woman and child as it's claimed. If we could get a better look at the collar we'd find no SS insignia.

Harmless_Venom
Harmless_Venom

@Evilember
unique roots
I'm not a mongrel, I'm Ukrainian?

CodeBuns
CodeBuns

not a single refutation of the OP so far.

come on lads, someone has to know something

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Harmless_Venom
Then call yourself Ukrainian, your ancestors fought against being turned into a single bland of Soviet race!

Ignoramus
Ignoramus

@CodeBuns
arguing with leftypol

are you a newfag or a troll from there?

Boy_vs_Girl
Boy_vs_Girl

@Ignoramus
you aren't argueing with them, they arent even here. you would be argueing with an infograph.

Bidwell
Bidwell

@Boy_vs_Girl
but it's from leftypol so no one cares. anything coming out of that board is a waste of life

WebTool
WebTool

@Evilember
unique roots
I'm not a mongrel, I'm Ukrainian?

ZeroReborn
ZeroReborn

@happy_sad
I do call myself Ukrainian, but I also call myself white.
fix site htwhls

happy_sad
happy_sad

@Boy_vs_Girl
nobody wants to work for others benefit when they could work for their own. it doesnt even make sense and only retarded braindead leftists latch on to the concept which ends up leaving millions starving and dead. its human nature and if any leftists actually worked a manual labor job, they would realize just how angry a human gets when he is working his ass off and his coworker is fucking around not doing shit. but youre all sheltered spastics who look at propagandized infographs instead of mass graves.

Need_TLC
Need_TLC

@FastChef
Since he's obviously gone I will reply for him:

WOW ARE YOU SERIOUSLY EXPECTING ME TO ELABORATE ON WHAT I SAY?

Carnalpleasure
Carnalpleasure

@TalkBomber

60 million is up for debate. The entire premise of your post is fucking stupid though.

It's all propaganda

Maybe if it magically "surfaced" under Yeltsin, since his goal was to discredit the USSR, obviously. But it didn't. Every Chairman after Stalin acknowledged this.

technically feasible

Except Ukraine had millions of deaths and still survived as a viable state. At least pretend it was just famine. Saying it didn't happen is fucking stupid, the Ukrainian Politburo even acknowledged this. You can go find the documents on the Library of Congress website if you'd like (inb4 "not a valid source because reasons, but Soviet documents are")

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